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today we welcome dr. Robert Davis to

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skeptic Oh Bob is an internationally

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recognized expert in the field of

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sensory neuroscience I was just browsing

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his curriculum Vita before we talked

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here and way beyond my comprehension but

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I have to take it for what it's worth

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he's the guy's had a stellar academic

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career all the usual stuff articles in

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scholarly paper and IH grants called the

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conferences to speak all the stuff and

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then like we like to say on skeptic oh

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you know the universe knocked

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more-or-less Bob and his wife had a

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rather lengthy UFO sighting a few years

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back that led to his first book the UFO

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phenomenon then he had a rather

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remarkable shared near-death experience

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or shared death experience I should say

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if you know what that is leading to his

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second book life after death and to top

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it all off he has this rather remarkable

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Kundalini experience a peak experience

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that more or less leads to his third

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book and one that we're going to talk a

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lot about today unseen forces the

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integration of science reality and you

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Bob awesome awesome work thank you so

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much for joining me

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Alex it's really a pleasure to be with

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you but I sense you for quite some time

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well great you know you were telling me

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about a little bit beforehand and that's

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always good to hear especially because I

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want to try something different here I'm

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just started trying it out lately but I

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really like the way that it goes because

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it launches us into these level three

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kind of discussions and in the email

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exchange we head back and forth and

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because you're a listener to the show

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you know what I mean when I say level

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three we don't have to go over the

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basics we don't have to try and

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painstakingly deal with all them stupid

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skeptical nonsense and we can get to

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some of the real issues that are

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important to the people like you and I

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who are deeply into trying to figure

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this stuff out so are you ready

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oh I'm ready let's go sceptical jeopardy

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for those who are listening along here

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are my categories for you mind equals

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brain bio filled in the EES vs.

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abductions different world and we'll

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explain what that means but that's one

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of the key ideas from the book time and

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space peak experience obviously we have

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to get there

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xanax I got an interesting spin how much

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we should rely on the medical field to

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save us from the spiritual emergencies

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that are no doubt their Kundalini we've

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got to talk about that and of course I

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always have God on the list because God

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seems to be left out of these

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discussions all too often so dr. Robert

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Davis please pick your category well

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stay with Bob but the thought would I

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guess the peak experience I think that's

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the overarching issue in a sense right

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here so let's go with that one

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okay peak experience and I guess that

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leads to a really easy question for me

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how are you defining peak experience

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well it's it is debatable Stace talked

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about it quite a while ago it's it's a

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broad range of spiritual mystical

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extraordinary experiences perceived

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generally in terms of a ineffable type

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of description of reality they have

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people report having an altered sense of

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time and space possibly even interacting

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with non-human entities so that's a

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distinct possibility

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but they sense this interconnectedness a

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common sense of oneness with the cosmos

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as they say do you worry

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here's a direct question right now do

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you worry that we're lumping too many

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things together when we talk about peak

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experience we may very well and that's

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part of the problem we think weeding

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things out trying to more specifically

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define with precise criteria what we are

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talking about but I have lumped the NDEs

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OBEs even the you a peas

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meditation psychoactive reactions that

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falls under the heading those are all

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trigger life experiences of this

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overarching peak experiences this

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extraordinary event that seemed to

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transform people in

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remarkable often similar generally

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positive ways in terms of

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psycho-spiritual changes and and the

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question here is why why are these

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different types of trigger events share

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similarities unique differences no doubt

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but why do they have such a remarkable

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effect on people from that day forward

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and that is the that is the critical

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question here and why doesn't the

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medical community psychiatric community

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and particularly give more emphasis more

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attention to the millions of individuals

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who are having difficulty integrating

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this remarkable what's called peak

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experience was called the spiritual

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awakening transcendent whatever you

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might call it it goes by many different

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names but nevertheless people are

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questioned what happened to them why me

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did I actually interact with another

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reality

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am I going insane they're hesitant to

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see professional helpful fear of being

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regarded as as psychotic in nature

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because the last thing you want to hear

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is that you are psychotic when you

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question your sanity that can put you

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over the edge and it does many people

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don't are obviously don't want to go

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there so they there in silence so

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confine and just with one person and

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people know that they're different

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they're having a spiritual emergency I

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had a spiritual emergency we all that's

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why I brought that you know I just

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popped that up on the screen but let's

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talk about that because that's pretty

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amazing and it takes us in a bunch of

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different directions that I think are

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interesting first of all we want to tell

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people what a Kundalini experience is

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you know it's been documented in the

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yoga literature for a long time

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culturally we've kind of maybe not

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always used it correctly in terms of the

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definition of what it is in the West but

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it still basically comes through and

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it's a physical biological kind of thing

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a lot of times the way people talk about

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it and then there's this integration

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problem that you're talking about

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sometimes people have these Kundalini

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awakening kind of experiences these

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all-knowing peak experiences while the

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energy that runs through the body kind

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of experience and sometimes that's comes

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after a very rigorous set

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exercises meditations over a period of

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years guided by an experienced guru type

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who's going to lead you there but other

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times as you're gonna I think tell us

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about it comes in a more spontaneous

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out-of-control way out of the blue

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sometimes we've had some people on the

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show who've talked about exactly that

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and it can be very unsettling when it

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comes that way so I've kind of teed it

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up a little bit but fill out the missing

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pieces and tell us about your Kundalini

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experience well you know we'll say that

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looks at a Cleveland experience it's

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just simply another type of trigger

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event for an overarching peak experience

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there's very similar and in my case it

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did emerge spontaneously but let me give

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a little backdrop to this quickly I gave

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a talk in Australia

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following the talk I was invited to

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participate in a little party in the

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hotel room one of the women their

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physician actually said let's do some

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medical feeling so people sat around

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about five six of us and she started to

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talk she started to talk about erasing

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engrams removing negative energy

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energies genetic dispositions all of

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this type of information that that kind

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of was focused on cleaning the person

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out removing all those the negative

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so-called Karma and she was very

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descriptive about it nevertheless I

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started talking couldn't stop for 20

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minutes I started having involuntary

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movements about shoulders my head and I

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was conscious I was fully aware that I

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was literally out of control I could not

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and have not ever experienced that I

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could not control myself and at the same

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time while I'm more than curious about

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what's going on with my body I felt

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wonderful

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I felt that surge of energy that you

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talked about the kind of like a

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foundation in a way but typical

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Kundalini what do people talk about

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maybe maybe something having to do with

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chakra and the release of energy from

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the base of the spine and maybe maybe

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that's that's all what it is

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but but it's obviously not clear to the

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medical community what is actually going

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on other than that it was like a dual

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awareness I was here in the moment but

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but I couldn't control my body although

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I was very aware of what was going on

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and I loved it it was a very positive

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energy here again it's impossible to

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fully explain to another person unless

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they have it but I was for a period of

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time transformed by that it was an

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extraordinary positive in many ways but

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it did have a net spiritual emergency

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attached to it numerous obvious

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questions were going to be asked by

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anyone but I felt that

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interconnectedness how does it manifest

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again ineffable I can't explain it I

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felt more at one with reality to the

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point where I started to hug trees every

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time I walked in the park I felt that

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kind of closeness it's a life last

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several months I was very anxious try to

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read everything about Kundalini

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experience eventually found dr. Graf's

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book on spiritual emergency anybody who

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is experiencing something like that

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whatever event and people have it for

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again a variety of trigger experiences

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NDEs OBE psycho etc in you a peak the

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thing is that book is a critical

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resource and it does provide sufficient

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perspective to give you a better sense

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of what's going on and possibly what to

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do now you need that kind of comfort so

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let's let's back up and mature those who

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stand grof is of course you and I do but

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absolute pioneer in these fields and has

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explored these extended States from a

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number of different kind of venues or

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pads in as you were kind of talking

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about so started out with psychedelics

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but also just went to meditation

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rhythmic kind of drumming and all this

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kind of stuff which then relates to what

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we see in cultures throughout time that

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are isolated from a modern society they

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still have this way and now we

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understand that as a way of accessing

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these peak experiences these altered

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states and that starts to connect so the

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other thing Stan Grof starts to start

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documenting what it's like to be in

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these state

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alluding to maybe you want to speak more

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of they can be extremely uncomfortable

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and also just unsettling in a number of

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ways I mean that they lead to all sorts

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of personal problems you know the people

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that are closest to you may not be able

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to relate to you for that six months or

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sometimes for a year that people are

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kind of often doing things so there's

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all those things we want to pull apart

278
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:31,890
and maybe I'll stop and do that but then

279
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what I really want to get to you is

280
00:11:38,390 --> 00:11:35,940
beginning to start to understand or take

281
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stabs at what we think that's saying

282
00:11:42,830 --> 00:11:41,100
about this larger reality and whether

283
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:42,840
it's a different world or whether it's

284
00:11:46,850 --> 00:11:44,370
looking at the world differently as you

285
00:11:49,790 --> 00:11:46,860
like to put it but fill in any gaps I

286
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:49,800
left about Stan graphs important work

287
00:11:54,950 --> 00:11:52,320
and then the general lay of the land for

288
00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:54,960
these Kundalini experiences and go ahead

289
00:12:00,530 --> 00:11:58,050
stop there yeah we need more support

290
00:12:02,570 --> 00:12:00,540
from the psychological community and

291
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:02,580
they need to be aware of the unique

292
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:04,800
types of psychological problems these

293
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:06,570
individuals are having trying to wrestle

294
00:12:10,340 --> 00:12:08,730
with what happened to them the fact that

295
00:12:13,730 --> 00:12:10,350
mainstream science of course doesn't

296
00:12:16,820 --> 00:12:13,740
recognize the things that we're talking

297
00:12:21,560 --> 00:12:16,830
about as being true reality in the sense

298
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:21,570
of an NDE Kundalini etc they may be that

299
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:23,970
lack of acknowledgement understanding

300
00:12:30,110 --> 00:12:27,330
has led to a paltry an inadequate

301
00:12:31,850 --> 00:12:30,120
inferior management system on the part

302
00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:31,860
of the medical community psychiatric in

303
00:12:36,829 --> 00:12:34,800
particular psychological to manage

304
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:36,839
people to help them with the unique

305
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:39,360
experiences there are some who do that

306
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:41,930
but they're few and far between and

307
00:12:46,070 --> 00:12:43,650
billions of people have these

308
00:12:47,390 --> 00:12:46,080
experiences every year we know 200,000

309
00:12:50,660 --> 00:12:47,400
people in United States alone have an

310
00:12:52,940 --> 00:12:50,670
NDE do you think they were the same

311
00:12:55,130 --> 00:12:52,950
person having their morning coffee and a

312
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:55,140
bagel a day before I don't think so

313
00:13:00,079 --> 00:12:57,360
coming off of something like that is

314
00:13:03,860 --> 00:13:00,089
going to more than rock your world and

315
00:13:06,110 --> 00:13:03,870
transform you in in many ways and that

316
00:13:07,579 --> 00:13:06,120
is a critical question among many others

317
00:13:09,950 --> 00:13:07,589
why are these individuals again

318
00:13:13,130 --> 00:13:09,960
transformed but I always wonder and I

319
00:13:15,260 --> 00:13:13,140
always worry if we're not asking the

320
00:13:17,510 --> 00:13:15,270
wrong question there so let me review

321
00:13:19,470 --> 00:13:17,520
some of the data that you just glossed

322
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:19,480
over you go talk to an

323
00:13:25,210 --> 00:13:22,399
researcher like PMH Atwater who's done

324
00:13:29,259 --> 00:13:25,220
an awesome job of exploring exactly that

325
00:13:31,119 --> 00:13:29,269
topic that is under reported if you will

326
00:13:32,769 --> 00:13:31,129
because not a lot of folks want to talk

327
00:13:35,379 --> 00:13:32,779
about the fact that you're gonna have

328
00:13:37,119 --> 00:13:35,389
this NDE you're gonna meet god you're

329
00:13:38,350 --> 00:13:37,129
going to be transformed and then you're

330
00:13:42,189 --> 00:13:38,360
going to come back and you're going to

331
00:13:44,079 --> 00:13:42,199
be suicidal and get a divorce what no

332
00:13:44,350 --> 00:13:44,089
one wants that story and it's not like

333
00:13:47,799 --> 00:13:44,360
that

334
00:13:50,769 --> 00:13:47,809
always happens but you know it doesn't

335
00:13:52,569 --> 00:13:50,779
solve all the problems and then

336
00:13:57,759 --> 00:13:52,579
interestingly enough you know you are

337
00:14:01,749 --> 00:13:57,769
super well-versed in the UFO contact ET

338
00:14:04,299 --> 00:14:01,759
contact experience stuff and you're well

339
00:14:06,730 --> 00:14:04,309
tied into the free organization and know

340
00:14:09,189 --> 00:14:06,740
the data set as well as know the stuff

341
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:09,199
around that and so there the story is

342
00:14:14,619 --> 00:14:12,170
the same right Bob these people even if

343
00:14:16,509 --> 00:14:14,629
they have spiritually transformative

344
00:14:18,489 --> 00:14:16,519
experiences as part of their contact

345
00:14:20,769 --> 00:14:18,499
experiences or if they don't if they

346
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:20,779
have more traumatic you know experiences

347
00:14:26,530 --> 00:14:23,360
same thing they come back you know

348
00:14:29,889 --> 00:14:26,540
divorce rate goes way up feelings of

349
00:14:32,439 --> 00:14:29,899
isolation goes way up you know all these

350
00:14:35,410 --> 00:14:32,449
things are kind of the hidden message

351
00:14:37,539 --> 00:14:35,420
and then I go talk to a guy really

352
00:14:40,809 --> 00:14:37,549
appreciate him like his work as dr.

353
00:14:42,539 --> 00:14:40,819
Jeffrey Martin a guy who studied the

354
00:14:44,739 --> 00:14:42,549
awakening enlightenment experience

355
00:14:47,319 --> 00:14:44,749
scientifically Harvard trained social

356
00:14:49,530 --> 00:14:47,329
scientist right up the alley of what

357
00:14:52,239 --> 00:14:49,540
we're talking about here so go talk to

358
00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:52,249
Christian mystics as well as Buddhist

359
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:55,910
Zen the best practitioners you go to a

360
00:15:00,730 --> 00:14:58,399
community and you say okay who's really

361
00:15:02,559 --> 00:15:00,740
got the goods who's really enlightened

362
00:15:05,949 --> 00:15:02,569
and then you go talk to those people and

363
00:15:08,079 --> 00:15:05,959
you find out their experience their

364
00:15:10,239 --> 00:15:08,089
phenomenology what that's all about and

365
00:15:12,699 --> 00:15:10,249
you go study that and you know you look

366
00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:12,709
the best you can at what it means to

367
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:15,769
become awakened or enlightening again

368
00:15:19,929 --> 00:15:18,410
same thing yes it's a great

369
00:15:22,650 --> 00:15:19,939
transformation wouldn't change it for

370
00:15:26,769 --> 00:15:22,660
anything in the world also leads to

371
00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:26,779
increased divorce higher rates of you

372
00:15:30,789 --> 00:15:28,910
know major upheaval in your

373
00:15:32,289 --> 00:15:30,799
interpersonal relationships and stuff

374
00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:32,299
like that so here we're talking about

375
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:33,350
people who are

376
00:15:37,420 --> 00:15:35,570
just going through a different kind of

377
00:15:40,570 --> 00:15:37,430
awakening but we're saying the same

378
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:40,580
thing so let's tackle that for a minute

379
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:44,450
particularly with well I understand what

380
00:15:49,090 --> 00:15:46,250
you're saying about turning on the

381
00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:49,100
medical community to this the flipside

382
00:15:56,740 --> 00:15:53,360
is is that really a viable path because

383
00:15:58,690 --> 00:15:56,750
they are so engrained with the thinking

384
00:16:00,610 --> 00:15:58,700
and that was really the point of what I

385
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:00,620
had up on the screen of the xanax thing

386
00:16:07,410 --> 00:16:03,410
you know I mean this is a xanax world

387
00:16:10,540 --> 00:16:07,420
where xanax is like the most popular

388
00:16:12,910 --> 00:16:10,550
party drug at college right and kids are

389
00:16:16,540 --> 00:16:12,920
doing zani all the time right and we

390
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:16,550
have a pharmaceutical industrial complex

391
00:16:21,190 --> 00:16:19,010
that cranks that stuff out they know

392
00:16:23,770 --> 00:16:21,200
they're selling a hundred times more

393
00:16:25,210 --> 00:16:23,780
xanax than anyone in the world would

394
00:16:27,250 --> 00:16:25,220
need unless they're using for

395
00:16:29,380 --> 00:16:27,260
recreational purposes and they don't

396
00:16:31,090 --> 00:16:29,390
care and the whole system is built

397
00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:31,100
around that model and I don't want to

398
00:16:35,770 --> 00:16:33,350
get super conspiratorial other than to

399
00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:35,780
say is that really where we want to turn

400
00:16:40,540 --> 00:16:38,510
for help and I guess we could argue that

401
00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:40,550
where else are we gonna go because

402
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:42,140
people need help and they're gonna go

403
00:16:48,820 --> 00:16:44,930
see their doctor but boy it's just a

404
00:16:50,950 --> 00:16:48,830
tough road yeah yeah so much there's so

405
00:16:54,070 --> 00:16:50,960
much there it's that's one critical

406
00:16:56,290 --> 00:16:54,080
aspect to this whole phenomenon we don't

407
00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:56,300
even understand the essence of the

408
00:17:00,340 --> 00:16:57,890
different types of phenomena we are

409
00:17:03,310 --> 00:17:00,350
addressing let alone consciousness in

410
00:17:05,650 --> 00:17:03,320
order to try to make sense of what is

411
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:05,660
reality people actually having these

412
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:07,910
experiencing and his consciousness to

413
00:17:11,710 --> 00:17:09,290
think the different than the brain it

414
00:17:14,350 --> 00:17:11,720
all ties into into these bigger issues

415
00:17:17,410 --> 00:17:14,360
that we all bring to the table on a

416
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:17,420
daily basis is this all there is what my

417
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:19,760
senses tell me and if I pierce the veil

418
00:17:23,530 --> 00:17:22,250
if I have an extraordinary experience if

419
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:23,540
I have an altered state of consciousness

420
00:17:30,130 --> 00:17:25,850
that is so distinctly different joyous

421
00:17:33,130 --> 00:17:30,140
positive as so I feel right then however

422
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:33,140
do I have so many conflicts in my my

423
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:35,510
life thereafter like life you mentioned

424
00:17:39,730 --> 00:17:37,370
a high divorce rate that is quite true

425
00:17:41,530 --> 00:17:39,740
three-quarters of those have NDE have

426
00:17:43,570 --> 00:17:41,540
intercourse with the first five five or

427
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:43,580
ten years after the experience it does

428
00:17:47,020 --> 00:17:46,250
result in interpersonal relationship

429
00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:47,030
problems

430
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:49,310
here again big deal if they say they're

431
00:17:54,820 --> 00:17:51,770
spiritually awakened you know why all

432
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:54,830
the crises on the homefront there is a

433
00:17:58,990 --> 00:17:56,930
disparity here maybe and the medical

434
00:18:00,520 --> 00:17:59,000
community regards to these individuals

435
00:18:03,490 --> 00:18:00,530
for the most part it's having a form of

436
00:18:04,660 --> 00:18:03,500
psychosis another issue so not only do

437
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:04,670
we need to manage it we have to

438
00:18:09,610 --> 00:18:06,650
understand what we are managing their

439
00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:09,620
symptoms that were facilitated by some

440
00:18:15,070 --> 00:18:13,040
type of perceptual experiential

441
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:15,080
interaction with something which

442
00:18:19,390 --> 00:18:16,970
includes all of the things that we're

443
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:19,400
talking about which includes it the

444
00:18:22,930 --> 00:18:21,200
silvery disk in the sky and the greys

445
00:18:25,090 --> 00:18:22,940
and the reptilians coming into people's

446
00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:25,100
rooms and people have nd ease and they

447
00:18:28,660 --> 00:18:26,510
say they're interacting with deceased

448
00:18:31,330 --> 00:18:28,670
relatives and only deceased relatives or

449
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:31,340
supreme beings what people are saying

450
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:33,890
I knew my friend had died even though I

451
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:36,170
didn't know if he or she was sick more

452
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:37,850
common in twins but nevertheless a

453
00:18:41,860 --> 00:18:40,010
shared deaf experience that I had this

454
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:41,870
overwhelming sense of knowingness that

455
00:18:46,270 --> 00:18:44,960
that someone had died of ESP which in my

456
00:18:48,850 --> 00:18:46,280
mind is real I don't want to hear

457
00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:48,860
otherwise subtle effects very subtle but

458
00:18:54,190 --> 00:18:50,960
it is real and then the psychoactive

459
00:18:56,740 --> 00:18:54,200
drug - DMT psilocybin just in an online

460
00:18:59,140 --> 00:18:56,750
survey at John Hopkins University over

461
00:19:01,690 --> 00:18:59,150
3,000 individuals the core of them were

462
00:19:04,990 --> 00:19:01,700
atheists after ingesting psilocybin

463
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:05,000
about half of them became believers in

464
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:08,450
some Supreme Being the point is it has

465
00:19:13,230 --> 00:19:10,160
to be a profound of an end to alter

466
00:19:16,330 --> 00:19:13,240
one's religious profile in a sense

467
00:19:17,410 --> 00:19:16,340
spirituality to that magnitude and you

468
00:19:19,150 --> 00:19:17,420
know let me just put an exclamation

469
00:19:21,130 --> 00:19:19,160
point on that I love that you brought

470
00:19:22,660 --> 00:19:21,140
that up because I heard that and when

471
00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:22,670
you're in a ghazal didn't have addenda

472
00:19:28,660 --> 00:19:25,070
no it's a phenomenal point because I

473
00:19:30,940 --> 00:19:28,670
would just relate it to like dr. Jeffrey

474
00:19:32,650 --> 00:19:30,950
Martens finding on the awakening

475
00:19:35,950 --> 00:19:32,660
enlightenment thing in case people don't

476
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:35,960
know the point you just made is like

477
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:40,970
rock solid in terms of evidential in the

478
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:43,010
psychology community people do not

479
00:19:47,980 --> 00:19:45,290
change those beliefs the number of

480
00:19:50,050 --> 00:19:47,990
people who just don't have any kind of

481
00:19:51,370 --> 00:19:50,060
peak experience and yet fundamentally

482
00:19:54,220 --> 00:19:51,380
change their beliefs in that way is

483
00:19:57,180 --> 00:19:54,230
really really really low so the fact

484
00:20:00,610 --> 00:19:57,190
that it would be that high is super

485
00:20:02,350 --> 00:20:00,620
significant in is a major pointer that

486
00:20:03,940 --> 00:20:02,360
thing is going on along the lines of

487
00:20:05,649 --> 00:20:03,950
what you're talking about so I'm really

488
00:20:08,019 --> 00:20:05,659
glad you brought that up right thank you

489
00:20:10,210 --> 00:20:08,029
and that you're aware of that so many of

490
00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:10,220
you your listeners are then that's only

491
00:20:14,860 --> 00:20:12,049
the effects of civil side and similar

492
00:20:18,490 --> 00:20:14,870
outcomes occur from the Andes as we

493
00:20:20,860 --> 00:20:18,500
mentioned that among others so don't why

494
00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:20,870
what does trigger it is it obviously

495
00:20:27,940 --> 00:20:24,140
just a brain event or is it an aspect of

496
00:20:30,190 --> 00:20:27,950
you so I can't help but not consider

497
00:20:33,370 --> 00:20:30,200
that possibility and I don't have an

498
00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:33,380
answer I don't know if people are

499
00:20:37,930 --> 00:20:34,750
actually interacting with another

500
00:20:39,580 --> 00:20:37,940
reality another dimension that is in our

501
00:20:41,529 --> 00:20:39,590
time and space with a different fruit

502
00:20:44,110 --> 00:20:41,539
phase and are interacting with beings

503
00:20:47,649 --> 00:20:44,120
but we but again we have millions of

504
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:47,659
stories this is all anecdotal primarily

505
00:20:53,710 --> 00:20:50,570
it doesn't match with current scientific

506
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:53,720
laws as we all know you have to be

507
00:20:58,600 --> 00:20:56,090
careful to be talked to to about this

508
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:58,610
right it doesn't get enough attention in

509
00:21:02,409 --> 00:21:00,080
terms of research on the part of the

510
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:02,419
scientific community we're grasping at

511
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:05,570
straws we very few studies have done in

512
00:21:10,060 --> 00:21:07,610
this arena one the critical study that I

513
00:21:12,190 --> 00:21:10,070
just became familiar with Alex was was

514
00:21:14,470 --> 00:21:12,200
looking at the semantic content of

515
00:21:16,539 --> 00:21:14,480
individuals who have an NDE and

516
00:21:18,850 --> 00:21:16,549
contrasted with those who had a

517
00:21:20,919 --> 00:21:18,860
psychoactive effect from DMT

518
00:21:23,919 --> 00:21:20,929
dimethyltryptamine ayahuasca the

519
00:21:26,350 --> 00:21:23,929
similarities were astonishing pointed to

520
00:21:28,389 --> 00:21:26,360
the fact that obviously these two kind

521
00:21:31,389 --> 00:21:28,399
of peaking triggers are similar in terms

522
00:21:33,549 --> 00:21:31,399
of the experiential perspective Bob

523
00:21:35,260 --> 00:21:33,559
that's fascinating and I'd like to hear

524
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:35,270
more about that do you kind of remember

525
00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:37,330
off the top of your head the the

526
00:21:41,470 --> 00:21:39,710
methodology how they did the the

527
00:21:44,139 --> 00:21:41,480
language kind of parsing you were

528
00:21:45,639 --> 00:21:44,149
obviously pretty impressed by it and how

529
00:21:49,389 --> 00:21:45,649
that kind of played out I'd love to hear

530
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:49,399
more about that if I am familiar with it

531
00:21:55,690 --> 00:21:52,690
I don't have all the details at hand

532
00:21:57,130 --> 00:21:55,700
look Alex invite me back that alone

533
00:21:59,049 --> 00:21:57,140
among a few other studies there's

534
00:22:04,029 --> 00:21:59,059
another show I'll tell you the truth but

535
00:22:06,220 --> 00:22:04,039
that study was comparable to only a few

536
00:22:08,580 --> 00:22:06,230
other studies like meditators who

537
00:22:11,980 --> 00:22:08,590
achieve that non-dual state of awareness

538
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:11,990
there again semantic content of the

539
00:22:16,340 --> 00:22:14,080
essence of the experience was

540
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:16,350
comparable to those who have Indies

541
00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:19,120
palpable to those who have the DMT

542
00:22:23,310 --> 00:22:21,220
experience the point is there is overlap

543
00:22:24,810 --> 00:22:23,320
and even those were the UAP experience

544
00:22:26,580 --> 00:22:24,820
that they seem to have some altered

545
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:26,590
state of consciousness that parallels to

546
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:28,690
some extent unique differences no doubt

547
00:22:32,669 --> 00:22:30,570
among all these but there are sufficient

548
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:32,679
similarities in terms of author state of

549
00:22:37,139 --> 00:22:34,720
consciousness and transformative aspects

550
00:22:39,450 --> 00:22:37,149
of behavior going forward that can't be

551
00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:39,460
ignored the point is is it a brain event

552
00:22:43,799 --> 00:22:41,350
somebody accessing hijacking our

553
00:22:46,019 --> 00:22:43,809
consciousness does it prove that that we

554
00:22:48,629 --> 00:22:46,029
are interacting with some alternative

555
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:48,639
reality and the profound magnitude of

556
00:22:54,299 --> 00:22:51,730
that event emotional and physical and

557
00:22:55,980 --> 00:22:54,309
non-physical is beyond belief to the

558
00:22:58,350 --> 00:22:55,990
point where it does have a transforming

559
00:23:00,409 --> 00:22:58,360
effect it seems to result in that ego

560
00:23:03,090 --> 00:23:00,419
dissolution and an inability an

561
00:23:05,549 --> 00:23:03,100
individual's ability to distinguish

562
00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:05,559
internal from external reality so they

563
00:23:10,110 --> 00:23:07,510
have an absence of time and space in

564
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:10,120
other words they have an if about in joy

565
00:23:14,940 --> 00:23:12,970
and peace if you love unconditional we

566
00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:14,950
know it we've heard it before there are

567
00:23:20,039 --> 00:23:17,049
more critical questions at hand that

568
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:20,049
must be asked you know what is true

569
00:23:24,930 --> 00:23:22,720
reality and if you ask the materialist

570
00:23:26,580 --> 00:23:24,940
mindset now we know that's what what you

571
00:23:28,649 --> 00:23:26,590
see is what you get it's sensory

572
00:23:31,710 --> 00:23:28,659
information photons bouncing off

573
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:31,720
physical objects after coming here from

574
00:23:36,659 --> 00:23:34,090
14 billion years ago when that's from

575
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:36,669
the Big Bang okay it simulates my retina

576
00:23:42,629 --> 00:23:39,120
converted to electromagnetic energy I

577
00:23:46,009 --> 00:23:42,639
proceeded it's real it's all or none yes

578
00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:46,019
or no that's reality a true reality or

579
00:23:50,310 --> 00:23:48,130
how about millions of people who are

580
00:23:52,049 --> 00:23:50,320
saying similar things saying that they

581
00:23:54,810 --> 00:23:52,059
are interacting with the deceased saying

582
00:23:56,669 --> 00:23:54,820
that they experience the beauty that

583
00:23:58,620 --> 00:23:56,679
can't be put into words unconditional

584
00:23:59,399 --> 00:23:58,630
love that cannot be expressed to capture

585
00:24:00,960 --> 00:23:59,409
the moment

586
00:24:04,590 --> 00:24:00,970
they don't even want to return to their

587
00:24:08,549 --> 00:24:04,600
body in the e case what about all the

588
00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:08,559
other aspects details of their

589
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:11,049
perceptual experience when they have

590
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:13,210
these events in their lives that change

591
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:15,490
them the point is this is that another

592
00:24:20,639 --> 00:24:17,200
aspect of reality should that be

593
00:24:24,269 --> 00:24:20,649
regarded in other words by materialist

594
00:24:27,869 --> 00:24:24,279
as another reality well you can make a

595
00:24:30,449 --> 00:24:27,879
case for realism a paradigm shift to

596
00:24:32,279 --> 00:24:30,459
I'll start to consider the subjective

597
00:24:34,409 --> 00:24:32,289
experience a heck of a lot more than it

598
00:24:37,499 --> 00:24:34,419
is on the part of the science of the

599
00:24:39,779 --> 00:24:37,509
community it has to be quantified it has

600
00:24:41,789 --> 00:24:39,789
to follow the scientific method it has

601
00:24:44,189 --> 00:24:41,799
to be specifically analyzed well maybe

602
00:24:46,169 --> 00:24:44,199
not maybe not everything should be maybe

603
00:24:47,699 --> 00:24:46,179
this phenomena this altered state of

604
00:24:50,579 --> 00:24:47,709
consciousness it's an extraordinary

605
00:24:52,199 --> 00:24:50,589
thing we don't understand a bit of it I

606
00:24:53,609 --> 00:24:52,209
can see here tell you some neurologic

607
00:24:55,559 --> 00:24:53,619
stuff that goes on in the brain

608
00:24:57,599 --> 00:24:55,569
you know the default mode network is now

609
00:24:59,969 --> 00:24:57,609
operational and that nice apps over the

610
00:25:02,249 --> 00:24:59,979
foundation to all of this I don't know

611
00:25:05,519 --> 00:25:02,259
it's a good guess at best you know you

612
00:25:08,969 --> 00:25:05,529
said something either I read it in your

613
00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:08,979
latest book unseen forces or I heard it

614
00:25:12,209 --> 00:25:11,049
on one of the excellent interviews

615
00:25:13,589 --> 00:25:12,219
you've done you've done some great

616
00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:13,599
interviews and people can check those

617
00:25:17,969 --> 00:25:15,609
out and Mabel fried some links to other

618
00:25:19,199 --> 00:25:17,979
other interviews in the notes because we

619
00:25:22,069 --> 00:25:19,209
are kind of jumping in the middle of

620
00:25:26,069 --> 00:25:22,079
things here but you said peak

621
00:25:28,079 --> 00:25:26,079
experiences relate to needing an entity

622
00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:28,089
right so I wanted to explore that

623
00:25:33,479 --> 00:25:29,769
because I thought that was kind of a

624
00:25:36,869 --> 00:25:33,489
cool idea is that these people

625
00:25:39,719 --> 00:25:36,879
invariably are talking about having an

626
00:25:42,329 --> 00:25:39,729
experience with an entity and I love

627
00:25:43,919 --> 00:25:42,339
where that takes us because it takes us

628
00:25:45,749 --> 00:25:43,929
in a couple different ways you know we

629
00:25:49,439 --> 00:25:45,759
all understand the abduction thing oh

630
00:25:51,989 --> 00:25:49,449
the entity is a gray on a ship but in

631
00:25:54,409 --> 00:25:51,999
the end EE the entity is different

632
00:25:57,089 --> 00:25:54,419
sometimes it's just a spirit light

633
00:25:58,739 --> 00:25:57,099
sometimes it's God sometimes it's Jesus

634
00:26:00,599 --> 00:25:58,749
and Jesus tells you to come up and feel

635
00:26:03,269 --> 00:26:00,609
his hand where he was nailed to the

636
00:26:05,789 --> 00:26:03,279
cross kind of thing so but then we can

637
00:26:08,369 --> 00:26:05,799
also again jump over to the shamanic

638
00:26:11,609 --> 00:26:08,379
experience or the DMT experience and

639
00:26:13,169 --> 00:26:11,619
there's another entity but yours was the

640
00:26:18,269 --> 00:26:13,179
first case and it made me think

641
00:26:21,629 --> 00:26:18,279
differently of peak experiences equals

642
00:26:24,569 --> 00:26:21,639
meeting an entity can you elaborate on

643
00:26:31,169 --> 00:26:24,579
that a little bit I like that a plus B

644
00:26:33,959 --> 00:26:31,179
equals C then you know you can make a

645
00:26:37,049 --> 00:26:33,969
case not only for entities being a one

646
00:26:41,129 --> 00:26:37,059
similarity among the graves with the uip

647
00:26:41,580 --> 00:26:41,139
deceased relatives in the NVE elementals

648
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:41,590
little

649
00:26:45,870 --> 00:26:44,080
fusions for the psychédélices there is

650
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:45,880
this interaction is it based on wishful

651
00:26:49,769 --> 00:26:47,890
thinking is it also does it come from

652
00:26:52,260 --> 00:26:49,779
the unconscious in terms of oh forget it

653
00:26:54,539 --> 00:26:52,270
let's get way past that way past that

654
00:26:56,279 --> 00:26:54,549
because here is part two of that

655
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:56,289
question that's really interesting to me

656
00:27:00,450 --> 00:26:57,760
because I'm going to definitely drive

657
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:00,460
you past that stuff and that is are we

658
00:27:07,710 --> 00:27:03,730
at a point where we can start making

659
00:27:11,370 --> 00:27:07,720
some educated guesses of the structure

660
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:11,380
and the architecture that those entities

661
00:27:15,330 --> 00:27:13,600
are in I mean you know here's the

662
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:15,340
question I always kind of cut to the

663
00:27:20,970 --> 00:27:19,090
chase does ET have an NDE who does ET

664
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:20,980
pray to you know and and I'd say that

665
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:22,330
just to be provocative you know that

666
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:24,130
wasn't a question I would really ask you

667
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:26,049
Bob but you know it just kind of sets

668
00:27:30,299 --> 00:27:27,850
people spinning could we say at this

669
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:30,309
point that you know oh the reptilians

670
00:27:36,169 --> 00:27:33,520
are bad so on this spiritual development

671
00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:36,179
scale if we put it at one to ten

672
00:27:41,159 --> 00:27:38,559
reptilians are off they can be anywhere

673
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:41,169
from a five to an eight or a two to an

674
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:43,090
eight human beings can be like a three

675
00:27:47,010 --> 00:27:44,890
to a nine you know and then up at the

676
00:27:49,380 --> 00:27:47,020
top is the Godhead kind of thing I mean

677
00:27:52,049 --> 00:27:49,390
this is eventually I think where people

678
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:52,059
are wanting to go in terms of mapping

679
00:27:58,049 --> 00:27:55,210
the extended Rome and mapping the

680
00:28:01,110 --> 00:27:58,059
entities that are in that realm and how

681
00:28:03,090 --> 00:28:01,120
close are we to start being able to say

682
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:03,100
those kind of things they do add a

683
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:04,870
little bit more meaning to this you know

684
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:07,440
if we had the answer to that question

685
00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:09,760
and many people consider that they do

686
00:28:14,610 --> 00:28:11,919
and all I have to say is that their ego

687
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:14,620
ism is showing when they do with fierce

688
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:16,570
determination that they do as far as I'm

689
00:28:20,970 --> 00:28:18,970
concerned no one knows the answer like

690
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:20,980
that we're even close to the answer we

691
00:28:24,419 --> 00:28:22,450
probably don't even asking the right

692
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:24,429
questions and if we weren't there in the

693
00:28:29,639 --> 00:28:27,730
answer we couldn't even understand it so

694
00:28:31,470 --> 00:28:29,649
it's almost like consciousness talking

695
00:28:32,820 --> 00:28:31,480
about consciousness trying to define

696
00:28:36,029 --> 00:28:32,830
consciousness with your consciousness

697
00:28:38,820 --> 00:28:36,039
that's the greatest paradox of all we're

698
00:28:40,620 --> 00:28:38,830
trying to define this issue of non-human

699
00:28:43,649 --> 00:28:40,630
entities in all their various shapes

700
00:28:45,450 --> 00:28:43,659
sizes of bizarre types of interactions

701
00:28:47,610 --> 00:28:45,460
that people have reported we've been

702
00:28:49,649 --> 00:28:47,620
reported for eons said that the dwarfs

703
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:49,659
and the elves of folklore and the Bible

704
00:28:53,710 --> 00:28:51,850
are now possibly the greys or billions

705
00:28:55,930 --> 00:28:53,720
of today

706
00:28:58,169 --> 00:28:55,940
you can't ignore the archetype structure

707
00:29:02,560 --> 00:28:58,179
as young would refer to it as possibly

708
00:29:06,190 --> 00:29:02,570
and the evolution of these entities over

709
00:29:07,930 --> 00:29:06,200
time that's consistent with this cycle

710
00:29:10,180 --> 00:29:07,940
cultural sociological norms

711
00:29:12,639 --> 00:29:10,190
anthropological norms is Papers written

712
00:29:14,499 --> 00:29:12,649
on that I don't have the answer I'm just

713
00:29:16,539 --> 00:29:14,509
throwing it out there I don't have the

714
00:29:18,610 --> 00:29:16,549
answer to anything here let me say that

715
00:29:20,889 --> 00:29:18,620
up front I'm trying to synthesize and

716
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:20,899
integrate a massive overwhelming amount

717
00:29:25,060 --> 00:29:23,090
of information as best as I possibly can

718
00:29:26,860 --> 00:29:25,070
it may be completely off base and it

719
00:29:29,409 --> 00:29:26,870
just brings me to the peak experience as

720
00:29:31,210 --> 00:29:29,419
a foundation and you haven't all these

721
00:29:32,860 --> 00:29:31,220
little spokes going off and then more

722
00:29:35,169 --> 00:29:32,870
spoke but I think that I think it's been

723
00:29:37,060 --> 00:29:35,179
you also stated consciousness and the

724
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:37,070
various things that give rise to all the

725
00:29:41,139 --> 00:29:38,690
state of consciousness and the

726
00:29:43,210 --> 00:29:41,149
associated semantic perceptual context

727
00:29:45,399 --> 00:29:43,220
of the experience the interaction of

728
00:29:48,970 --> 00:29:45,409
beings as they say your bullets shapes

729
00:29:51,970 --> 00:29:48,980
sizes etc it's boggles the mind

730
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:51,980
how many varying types of you know

731
00:29:55,419 --> 00:29:53,570
experiences we're talking about they

732
00:29:57,100 --> 00:29:55,429
share common themes and there's a long

733
00:29:59,980 --> 00:29:57,110
list of things and why the medical

734
00:30:01,840 --> 00:29:59,990
scientific and non-scientific community

735
00:30:04,509 --> 00:30:01,850
doesn't allocate much more attention to

736
00:30:06,490 --> 00:30:04,519
to this critical issue is it's something

737
00:30:08,619 --> 00:30:06,500
that has troubled me but I always

738
00:30:10,570 --> 00:30:08,629
wrestle not only with the issue that

739
00:30:12,490 --> 00:30:10,580
I've had that led to writing these three

740
00:30:14,590 --> 00:30:12,500
books including the experience I had but

741
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:14,600
look to the unseen forces recently I

742
00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:17,090
questioned it daily I questioned reality

743
00:30:20,850 --> 00:30:18,320
they're like not from a psychotic

744
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:20,860
perspective at least I hope not

745
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:23,090
you know oh I totally know what you mean

746
00:30:28,450 --> 00:30:26,090
right yeah and we all want truth seekers

747
00:30:30,970 --> 00:30:28,460
you are obviously you know look at you

748
00:30:33,369 --> 00:30:30,980
and you listen secrets may be innate

749
00:30:36,519 --> 00:30:33,379
innate spirituality you know this

750
00:30:38,889 --> 00:30:36,529
probably transgenerational epigenetic

751
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:38,899
inheritance can make a case for how we

752
00:30:43,810 --> 00:30:41,690
are a spiritual in nature like our

753
00:30:46,299 --> 00:30:43,820
ancestors were they had to be much more

754
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:46,309
so I think to try to provide some

755
00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:49,490
comfort in terms of a crazy chaotic

756
00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:51,440
world of lightning strikes and thunder

757
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:53,809
that had no meaning explanation so they

758
00:30:57,940 --> 00:30:55,610
were always looking to gods I think we

759
00:31:00,970 --> 00:30:57,950
got some of that genetic stuff and we're

760
00:31:03,759 --> 00:31:00,980
still asking questions in an appropriate

761
00:31:06,190 --> 00:31:03,769
way many going into religion many going

762
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:06,200
into nothing atheism many going into

763
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:07,170
maybe the jaw

764
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:10,410
that we address and you can make a case

765
00:31:14,390 --> 00:31:12,210
for it being a house religion and of

766
00:31:17,060 --> 00:31:14,400
itself but it's turned into a circus

767
00:31:19,730 --> 00:31:17,070
it's turned into a business and that's

768
00:31:21,980 --> 00:31:19,740
okay that's okay it draws specific

769
00:31:24,110 --> 00:31:21,990
subsets of people that's okay

770
00:31:26,180 --> 00:31:24,120
maybe that however is another reality

771
00:31:28,310 --> 00:31:26,190
that we're missing the boat on that

772
00:31:30,260 --> 00:31:28,320
should coexist be given to more

773
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:30,270
consideration by mainstream science I

774
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:32,250
agree I just went up says that last

775
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:34,170
point in terms of that's okay because I

776
00:31:38,660 --> 00:31:35,850
like the way you laid that out because

777
00:31:40,790 --> 00:31:38,670
it is true you know and people get into

778
00:31:42,590 --> 00:31:40,800
for example the UFO community and then

779
00:31:44,030 --> 00:31:42,600
people freak out you go tell your wife

780
00:31:47,870 --> 00:31:44,040
you go tell your friend and they're like

781
00:31:49,790 --> 00:31:47,880
oh hat and stuff like that and that

782
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:49,800
still exists you know that's still hard

783
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:52,050
to do and yet as you and I know there's

784
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:54,000
a lot of really smart thinkers in the

785
00:31:57,530 --> 00:31:56,010
UFO community and there are some people

786
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:57,540
who are seeking it for other reasons and

787
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:00,720
like you said that's okay you know all

788
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:03,090
these different tribes are okay and we

789
00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:05,370
can try and bring the tribes together in

790
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:06,960
different ways and we probably should

791
00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:10,530
but it's natural given how they've been

792
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:13,590
ostracized and systematically made to

793
00:32:18,830 --> 00:32:16,320
feel alone afraid isolated

794
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:18,840
disinformation Missa for stats how it's

795
00:32:22,820 --> 00:32:20,730
going to be so that's a great point I

796
00:32:24,980 --> 00:32:22,830
want to try something else out I'm

797
00:32:27,260 --> 00:32:24,990
really interested in bouncing this idea

798
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:27,270
off of you because you keep going in a

799
00:32:33,170 --> 00:32:30,330
slightly different direction and you may

800
00:32:35,510 --> 00:32:33,180
be right so I'm not saying this in terms

801
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:35,520
of saying I know this is the answer or

802
00:32:39,350 --> 00:32:37,200
I'm not even sure how Eileen but I guess

803
00:32:42,140 --> 00:32:39,360
I put it out there before I say when I

804
00:32:43,490 --> 00:32:42,150
look at the Yogi's when I and I say yogi

805
00:32:45,890 --> 00:32:43,500
in the general term it could be a

806
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:45,900
Christian mistake it could be a Zen

807
00:32:51,260 --> 00:32:47,970
Buddhist whatever when I look at those

808
00:32:54,980 --> 00:32:51,270
guys they seem to be saying something

809
00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:54,990
different about these extended realms

810
00:33:01,340 --> 00:32:58,080
than other people are saying they say

811
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:01,350
things like capture the castle don't

812
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:03,810
worry about the entities that you'll

813
00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:05,760
experience along the way the witches and

814
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:07,710
the demons and all that just let all

815
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:10,530
that go go deeper go deeper capture the

816
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:12,480
castle saying there's something beyond

817
00:33:17,510 --> 00:33:14,370
all that and this is a middle ground you

818
00:33:19,340 --> 00:33:17,520
go talk to Yogananda you know the famous

819
00:33:20,780 --> 00:33:19,350
yogi used to live right up the road from

820
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:20,790
me find the river

821
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:23,730
of love and jump in and drowned yourself

822
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:28,080
so they're saying that all this stuff

823
00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:31,530
that we're talking about is still in the

824
00:33:36,020 --> 00:33:33,600
middle you know what I mean it's still

825
00:33:39,260 --> 00:33:36,030
this middle ground and there's something

826
00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:39,270
else beyond it and I see threads of that

827
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:43,710
in the NVE as well I see some people who

828
00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:46,410
go to the NDE space and they're in the

829
00:33:49,370 --> 00:33:47,910
middle and that's all they can handle

830
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:49,380
they're in the middle hey you didn't do

831
00:33:53,810 --> 00:33:52,080
so good here's the fire if you like god

832
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:53,820
you're gonna wind up here but then

833
00:33:57,980 --> 00:33:55,290
there's other people just you you

834
00:34:01,460 --> 00:33:57,990
transcend that and go way way further so

835
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:01,470
I don't know if that's really a valid

836
00:34:06,830 --> 00:34:04,770
map or not but what concerns me and what

837
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:06,840
I think you and I Bob could have an

838
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:08,850
interesting talk about is if there's

839
00:34:13,340 --> 00:34:11,250
some truth to that map that paints this

840
00:34:18,340 --> 00:34:13,350
whole thing we're talking about quite

841
00:34:21,350 --> 00:34:18,350
differently do you have any thoughts a

842
00:34:25,250 --> 00:34:21,360
question boy it requires a heck of a lot

843
00:34:27,860 --> 00:34:25,260
more time to explain and it could be how

844
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:27,870
we are evolving in terms of human

845
00:34:32,930 --> 00:34:30,960
potential with the Yogi's the people you

846
00:34:35,330 --> 00:34:32,940
refer to they seem to have a better

847
00:34:37,850 --> 00:34:35,340
grasp a handle on that expanded

848
00:34:40,700 --> 00:34:37,860
consciousness on spiritual awakening I'm

849
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:40,710
interacting with these beings going

850
00:34:44,930 --> 00:34:42,480
beyond that getting out capturing the

851
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:44,940
castle's finding the river it's a

852
00:34:51,860 --> 00:34:49,200
trajectory of love we have it today you

853
00:34:54,260 --> 00:34:51,870
know from some event in India Nobby Eva

854
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:54,270
Kundalini and it's triggered just like

855
00:34:58,400 --> 00:34:56,610
that as an all-or-none spontaneous event

856
00:35:01,720 --> 00:34:58,410
which is hot impossible to study

857
00:35:03,970 --> 00:35:01,730
obviously for that reason alone in part

858
00:35:07,180 --> 00:35:03,980
but these individuals have been

859
00:35:10,430 --> 00:35:07,190
practicing with some form of yoga

860
00:35:13,220 --> 00:35:10,440
mind-body stuff for what then you use

861
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:13,230
obviously decades they get good at we

862
00:35:17,060 --> 00:35:15,090
can learn from them possibly they are

863
00:35:18,860 --> 00:35:17,070
demonstrating to us an aspect of human

864
00:35:21,110 --> 00:35:18,870
potential that anybody can have on the

865
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:21,120
right cultivating kind of conditions

866
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:22,770
instead of we're trying to remember the

867
00:35:25,940 --> 00:35:24,810
day of the year America was discovered

868
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:25,950
let's have it

869
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:27,570
you know let's focus a little bit more

870
00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:31,200
on really maybe enhancing our potential

871
00:35:34,279 --> 00:35:32,640
abilities at

872
00:35:36,170 --> 00:35:34,289
and maybe the brain is impeding these

873
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:36,180
abilities you know maybe maybe it's now

874
00:35:40,549 --> 00:35:38,010
in full-blown and we're kind of hostage

875
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:40,559
to it you can make a case for that and

876
00:35:45,019 --> 00:35:42,450
it was kind of symbiotic with the brain

877
00:35:47,390 --> 00:35:45,029
but and they win you know I'm in my 60s

878
00:35:49,789 --> 00:35:47,400
I can't do very much of the brain now

879
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:49,799
maybe I could have we offered up as

880
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:52,890
children I think I see where you're

881
00:35:57,079 --> 00:35:55,170
going and there's many ways to address

882
00:36:00,529 --> 00:35:57,089
it and that was expressed beautifully

883
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:00,539
Alex but that is what we need to look at

884
00:36:05,029 --> 00:36:02,970
you know the little nuance within the

885
00:36:07,069 --> 00:36:05,039
phenomenon we have these people but we

886
00:36:08,779 --> 00:36:07,079
have these people and we can learn from

887
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:08,789
it yes I think so

888
00:36:13,309 --> 00:36:11,490
you know Bob when I was first coming

889
00:36:17,539 --> 00:36:13,319
across your story which is just

890
00:36:20,059 --> 00:36:17,549
remarkable and it has you know elements

891
00:36:22,940 --> 00:36:20,069
of it that you hear over and over again

892
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:22,950
and as I introduced it I said you know

893
00:36:29,779 --> 00:36:26,130
the universe knocked have you given any

894
00:36:32,420 --> 00:36:29,789
thought to that from this spiritual path

895
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:32,430
the soul path kind of thing do you have

896
00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:35,250
any inkling as to why you were led in

897
00:36:41,210 --> 00:36:38,940
this way and in particular in this order

898
00:36:43,490 --> 00:36:41,220
you know the UFOs then the near-death

899
00:36:45,620 --> 00:36:43,500
and the good doing I mean it's like a

900
00:36:48,279 --> 00:36:45,630
Hollywood script you know it's a

901
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:48,289
obviously I'm gonna use it word

902
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:50,640
involving process that goes with that

903
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:53,490
same you know you might evolving in the

904
00:37:00,019 --> 00:36:57,839
right way or my deep for everybody else

905
00:37:02,569 --> 00:37:00,029
inside but I'm kind of having fun you

906
00:37:05,569 --> 00:37:02,579
know along the way it's a hobby and

907
00:37:07,549 --> 00:37:05,579
assignments you know it's that if anyone

908
00:37:09,980 --> 00:37:07,559
looks at these three books and the three

909
00:37:11,809 --> 00:37:09,990
extraordinary experiences I mean let's

910
00:37:14,749 --> 00:37:11,819
face it from a statistical standpoint

911
00:37:18,499 --> 00:37:14,759
you know you're a scientist you know the

912
00:37:21,049 --> 00:37:18,509
odds of you having an extended UFO

913
00:37:23,210 --> 00:37:21,059
experience five to seven minutes that's

914
00:37:25,759 --> 00:37:23,220
pretty long and to share that with your

915
00:37:27,950 --> 00:37:25,769
wife and to have it that vivid pretty

916
00:37:31,009 --> 00:37:27,960
rare not a lot of people do that then

917
00:37:34,009 --> 00:37:31,019
also to have this rather profound shared

918
00:37:37,249 --> 00:37:34,019
death experience again kind of rare then

919
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:37,259
the Kundalini experience and the way

920
00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:38,970
that you describe it you know everyone

921
00:37:42,799 --> 00:37:40,380
else is in the room no one else has the

922
00:37:45,140 --> 00:37:42,809
Kundalini experience Bob does you know

923
00:37:46,250 --> 00:37:45,150
and Bob's writing books and Bob is a

924
00:37:48,770 --> 00:37:46,260
scientist we

925
00:37:51,710 --> 00:37:48,780
super well respected credentials I mean

926
00:37:57,740 --> 00:37:51,720
why is the universe knocking at Bob's

927
00:37:58,520 --> 00:37:57,750
door yesterday yeah but you know because

928
00:38:01,130 --> 00:37:58,530
I asked her

929
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:01,140
it's my is my gut feeling I asked for it

930
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:03,690
I had this strong intention and maybe

931
00:38:08,750 --> 00:38:06,960
it's all about intention long long time

932
00:38:09,380 --> 00:38:08,760
ago who says I was a child along these

933
00:38:10,700 --> 00:38:09,390
lines

934
00:38:13,250 --> 00:38:10,710
knowing that there's something far

935
00:38:16,490 --> 00:38:13,260
greater far important far more to what

936
00:38:18,380 --> 00:38:16,500
we regard as true reality I was always

937
00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:18,390
asking for it always ask interested in

938
00:38:23,330 --> 00:38:21,200
UFOs consciousness the brain obviously

939
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:23,340
what was that what were some of your

940
00:38:28,670 --> 00:38:26,250
first experiences because obviously you

941
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:28,680
went down a very different path you must

942
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:30,570
been a super smart guy to be as

943
00:38:33,860 --> 00:38:32,370
successful as you were academically so

944
00:38:35,690 --> 00:38:33,870
then that probably drove you away from

945
00:38:37,370 --> 00:38:35,700
some of that stuff what were some of

946
00:38:40,940 --> 00:38:37,380
those early experiences and what did you

947
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:40,950
do with them Oh early experiences my

948
00:38:46,070 --> 00:38:43,410
first one was the UFO experience that

949
00:38:47,390 --> 00:38:46,080
was back in the only 2012 was almost

950
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:47,400
like getting ready for a retirement

951
00:38:52,370 --> 00:38:49,530
let's get this guy going you know I do

952
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:52,380
this to my wife I act as if there's

953
00:38:58,820 --> 00:38:56,850
puppet strings over my head not right

954
00:39:00,560 --> 00:38:58,830
so nothing before that because

955
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:00,570
invariably when I talk to people and

956
00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:02,730
they think back and they think long and

957
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:05,310
hard and they go well you know my

958
00:39:09,500 --> 00:39:07,530
grandmother was my grandmother was a

959
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:09,510
psychic you know and she's but none of

960
00:39:12,530 --> 00:39:11,010
that stuff at all just kind of buried

961
00:39:16,180 --> 00:39:12,540
the nothing that right nothing that

962
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:16,190
really piques my interest for memory but

963
00:39:21,530 --> 00:39:19,170
if you asked a roomful of people have

964
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:21,540
you ever had X Y Z kind of experiences

965
00:39:25,250 --> 00:39:23,520
you can see hands go up this is not that

966
00:39:27,380 --> 00:39:25,260
uncommon maybe that maybe that these

967
00:39:29,330 --> 00:39:27,390
things are occurring within a relatively

968
00:39:31,730 --> 00:39:29,340
short time period make sure to be unique

969
00:39:33,350 --> 00:39:31,740
but I can't help but feel that

970
00:39:35,630 --> 00:39:33,360
something's going on here something's

971
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:35,640
that play it could be me maybe I'm

972
00:39:41,780 --> 00:39:37,890
creating it it's like some people say

973
00:39:44,150 --> 00:39:41,790
UFOs are a form of psychokinesis they do

974
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:44,160
mind generating it through some process

975
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:46,530
we don't need to it to address but but

976
00:39:53,420 --> 00:39:50,850
that may be an aspect of pique here but

977
00:39:56,210 --> 00:39:53,430
I may be creating this because I wanted

978
00:39:58,940 --> 00:39:56,220
so much it manifests in varying ways who

979
00:40:00,110 --> 00:39:58,950
knows or there is simply another form of

980
00:40:02,150 --> 00:40:00,120
energy that one

981
00:40:04,540 --> 00:40:02,160
they be part of Einstein's unified field

982
00:40:06,620 --> 00:40:04,550
theory along with electromagnetism

983
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:06,630
gravitational or two nuclear forces

984
00:40:13,310 --> 00:40:10,890
maybe that's a photon emissions from the

985
00:40:15,740 --> 00:40:13,320
body maybe are it's torsion waves as

986
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:15,750
some people claim biologically generated

987
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:18,330
in DNA you can go down that path it

988
00:40:21,020 --> 00:40:19,410
could be completely the right are

989
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:21,030
completely wrong it may account for

990
00:40:24,350 --> 00:40:22,650
invisible pathways in terms of

991
00:40:27,530 --> 00:40:24,360
communication with people who have

992
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:27,540
shared ESP and it's clear Telesur manic

993
00:40:33,410 --> 00:40:30,210
events between twins and fiber take ages

994
00:40:35,540 --> 00:40:33,420
that results in remarkable exchange of

995
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:35,550
energy and outcomes in these two

996
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:38,160
individuals that certainly defy current

997
00:40:42,890 --> 00:40:40,410
laws of science we see manifestations of

998
00:40:44,690 --> 00:40:42,900
this the war what is mediating that

999
00:40:47,570 --> 00:40:44,700
process and whatever that process

1000
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:47,580
leading that process is I think we can

1001
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:49,650
get some insight into terms of what may

1002
00:40:53,710 --> 00:40:51,810
be mediating many of the things that

1003
00:40:57,140 --> 00:40:53,720
we're talking about in terms of one's

1004
00:40:58,820 --> 00:40:57,150
perceptions of another reality along the

1005
00:41:00,290 --> 00:40:58,830
lines of the peak experiences that we're

1006
00:41:02,060 --> 00:41:00,300
talking about because in the business up

1007
00:41:04,010 --> 00:41:02,070
to the experience it's claimed to be

1008
00:41:06,140 --> 00:41:04,020
able to have telepathy people claim that

1009
00:41:08,180 --> 00:41:06,150
they can communicate with beings from a

1010
00:41:10,460 --> 00:41:08,190
ship you know

1011
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:10,470
telepathically we hear that all the time

1012
00:41:14,540 --> 00:41:13,170
now is that again I'm not gonna say you

1013
00:41:16,430 --> 00:41:14,550
know wishful thinking I don't want to go

1014
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:16,440
there either I don't give that much

1015
00:41:23,090 --> 00:41:20,160
thought I should say as a rationale for

1016
00:41:25,550 --> 00:41:23,100
this if I leaned in one direction it

1017
00:41:28,310 --> 00:41:25,560
would be in a non materialistic sense we

1018
00:41:30,740 --> 00:41:28,320
need that we need materialism but it's

1019
00:41:33,170 --> 00:41:30,750
over emphasized we need realism the

1020
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:33,180
subjective experience and to take people

1021
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:34,800
who have these experiences much more

1022
00:41:39,590 --> 00:41:36,810
seriously because it may hold the key to

1023
00:41:42,310 --> 00:41:39,600
what actually is maybe not maybe what

1024
00:41:45,380 --> 00:41:42,320
true reality is but an alternate reality

1025
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:45,390
and it's more internal reality that is

1026
00:41:49,900 --> 00:41:48,000
real because it changes us it's an

1027
00:41:52,910 --> 00:41:49,910
experience beyond comprehension

1028
00:41:55,100 --> 00:41:52,920
expression and it changes me from that

1029
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:55,110
day forward why can't that be reality

1030
00:42:00,350 --> 00:41:57,450
that sure as heck is more than than my

1031
00:42:02,570 --> 00:42:00,360
reality watching TV you know you know 10

1032
00:42:05,420 --> 00:42:02,580
hours a day and it may not be a

1033
00:42:07,550 --> 00:42:05,430
completely positive one either so the

1034
00:42:10,100 --> 00:42:07,560
point is that there's an aspect of human

1035
00:42:13,660 --> 00:42:10,110
performance potential of functioning

1036
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:13,670
that exists in so many manifestations

1037
00:42:18,250 --> 00:42:15,890
give up the controversy if all of this

1038
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:18,260
is real we persist in here it's real

1039
00:42:22,809 --> 00:42:20,240
yeah a certain percentage of people are

1040
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:22,819
indeed psychotic let's weed them out as

1041
00:42:27,809 --> 00:42:25,730
best as possible who claim to have these

1042
00:42:30,490 --> 00:42:27,819
kinds of experiences but but we know

1043
00:42:32,710 --> 00:42:30,500
well-balanced individuals are having

1044
00:42:35,079 --> 00:42:32,720
these remarkable events from grace

1045
00:42:37,420 --> 00:42:35,089
sitting on their bed to seeing their

1046
00:42:40,029 --> 00:42:37,430
great-great-grandmother to accept etc

1047
00:42:42,549 --> 00:42:40,039
and and we have to understand that maybe

1048
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:42,559
that can t be a brain event possibly

1049
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:44,510
government by quantum processes which we

1050
00:42:48,849 --> 00:42:46,640
have yet to address and may very well

1051
00:42:52,420 --> 00:42:48,859
provide us with some understanding about

1052
00:42:54,819 --> 00:42:52,430
how the brain itself operates but it

1053
00:42:56,559 --> 00:42:54,829
interacts with the brain and the central

1054
00:42:58,329 --> 00:42:56,569
nervous system the brain matter and the

1055
00:43:00,759 --> 00:42:58,339
central nervous systems and the question

1056
00:43:02,890 --> 00:43:00,769
is in there a potential for that kind of

1057
00:43:05,170 --> 00:43:02,900
activity to give rise to the perception

1058
00:43:07,210 --> 00:43:05,180
of another reality you go back to the

1059
00:43:09,039 --> 00:43:07,220
mind brain filter as you get rid of the

1060
00:43:10,299 --> 00:43:09,049
brain's influence impede its influence

1061
00:43:12,250 --> 00:43:10,309
and you're gonna be exposed to an

1062
00:43:13,990 --> 00:43:12,260
advanced state of awareness advanced

1063
00:43:17,289 --> 00:43:14,000
consciousness what William James our

1064
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:17,299
founders of psychology made that claim

1065
00:43:20,589 --> 00:43:19,130
over a hundred years ago and and the

1066
00:43:23,650 --> 00:43:20,599
things that we're seeing now is in my

1067
00:43:26,380 --> 00:43:23,660
mind some of the scribes to what he was

1068
00:43:29,799 --> 00:43:26,390
selling not that he's right but I see it

1069
00:43:31,809 --> 00:43:29,809
I see a parallel meditators meditating

1070
00:43:33,789 --> 00:43:31,819
when people have an NDE their brain is

1071
00:43:35,769 --> 00:43:33,799
understandably quieted and they have

1072
00:43:38,589 --> 00:43:35,779
these kinds of experiences that always

1073
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:38,599
and always psycho activations if the

1074
00:43:43,859 --> 00:43:41,359
point is trigger events often result

1075
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:43,869
when the brain is in the default mode

1076
00:43:49,029 --> 00:43:45,890
Network it's this kind of self

1077
00:43:51,069 --> 00:43:49,039
referential mental activity and and that

1078
00:43:54,069 --> 00:43:51,079
may lead to this ego dissolution this

1079
00:43:57,220 --> 00:43:54,079
ternary profound joy of feeling fluid

1080
00:43:59,170 --> 00:43:57,230
not solid at one with the universe so to

1081
00:44:01,329 --> 00:43:59,180
speak the interconnectedness thing maybe

1082
00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:01,339
that's maybe that's at the core cells

1083
00:44:06,069 --> 00:44:04,160
the default mode Network that that is

1084
00:44:08,049 --> 00:44:06,079
another reality and it's another aspect

1085
00:44:09,460 --> 00:44:08,059
of brain and the brain may be more

1086
00:44:11,470 --> 00:44:09,470
remarkable than we think

1087
00:44:13,390 --> 00:44:11,480
maybe it's capable of removing

1088
00:44:16,029 --> 00:44:13,400
consciousness from itself or an aspect

1089
00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:16,039
of awareness and interacting maybe it

1090
00:44:19,870 --> 00:44:17,839
has that potential I don't know but

1091
00:44:22,509 --> 00:44:19,880
people claim it doesn't mean you're

1092
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:22,519
right but maybe the Yogi's are some

1093
00:44:26,170 --> 00:44:24,410
other people we should be studying I

1094
00:44:26,970 --> 00:44:26,180
think the sense we need to be studying

1095
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:26,980
them though

1096
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:28,930
that claim to have dual awareness or

1097
00:44:33,630 --> 00:44:31,690
able to voluntarily achieve that state

1098
00:44:35,970 --> 00:44:33,640
do many of us go into that without

1099
00:44:38,910 --> 00:44:35,980
preparation nobody gives us a scorecard

1100
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:38,920
a prerequisite conditions you know this

1101
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:40,210
is what you're gonna experience it's

1102
00:44:50,220 --> 00:44:47,170
hold on to your hat man no you don't get

1103
00:44:52,530 --> 00:44:50,230
you know you gotta go I'm so scaled a

1104
00:44:54,780 --> 00:44:52,540
sload friend a slowly evolving process

1105
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:54,790
and knock my socks off because no one

1106
00:44:59,880 --> 00:44:56,650
told me that day before that are gonna

1107
00:45:02,760 --> 00:44:59,890
have a Kundalini so it got to be done

1108
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:02,770
the right way but the point is so we're

1109
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:04,450
suffering a consequence I think we're

1110
00:45:08,190 --> 00:45:05,890
born at the wrong time and serves I

1111
00:45:09,740 --> 00:45:08,200
think of seeing where where potential

1112
00:45:12,510 --> 00:45:09,750
can be in terms of human performance

1113
00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:12,520
consciousness you're exerting a positive

1114
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:15,280
effect of mind on body another area that

1115
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:17,530
found certainly attention the effects of

1116
00:45:23,070 --> 00:45:19,210
meditation on the body we know all the

1117
00:45:24,990 --> 00:45:23,080
good stuff of course but here again for

1118
00:45:26,609 --> 00:45:25,000
SIBO effect that no placebo effects

1119
00:45:29,820 --> 00:45:26,619
telling us a great deal about the minds

1120
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:29,830
power intentionality again we do not

1121
00:45:34,020 --> 00:45:32,290
address it sufficiently especially from

1122
00:45:37,050 --> 00:45:34,030
childhood on in an appropriate manner

1123
00:45:39,060 --> 00:45:37,060
and won't derive the maximum benefit in

1124
00:45:42,570 --> 00:45:39,070
a positive way potentially from

1125
00:45:44,490 --> 00:45:42,580
intention from meditating from from all

1126
00:45:46,890 --> 00:45:44,500
the stuff that these these people who

1127
00:45:49,590 --> 00:45:46,900
claim to be able to leave their body and

1128
00:45:52,830 --> 00:45:49,600
their so-called low balance they're not

1129
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:52,840
psychotic we tested for that and what

1130
00:45:57,210 --> 00:45:55,570
are they talking about right we're going

1131
00:45:59,130 --> 00:45:57,220
to throw with the flow this film just

1132
00:46:00,750 --> 00:45:59,140
don't pass the entities interact with

1133
00:46:02,730 --> 00:46:00,760
whatever you know like I can walk in the

1134
00:46:04,950 --> 00:46:02,740
park that kind of thing it's not new to

1135
00:46:07,830 --> 00:46:04,960
them so so they know how to manage it

1136
00:46:10,620 --> 00:46:07,840
they've been there before man if I if it

1137
00:46:13,650 --> 00:46:10,630
was me in their shoes no I because of a

1138
00:46:18,060 --> 00:46:13,660
psychotic break these individuals are

1139
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:18,070
many I know I know for a fact that's one

1140
00:46:21,150 --> 00:46:19,210
of the things I think is interesting is

1141
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:21,160
when you talk to some of those folks or

1142
00:46:25,590 --> 00:46:23,170
you know you listen to the Dalai Lama

1143
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:25,600
and they go oh yeah well we have a whole

1144
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:29,050
school of thought devoted to you know

1145
00:46:33,690 --> 00:46:31,330
what to do when you have those kind of

1146
00:46:36,420 --> 00:46:33,700
experiences kind of a different kind of

1147
00:46:38,190 --> 00:46:36,430
psychology and I agree with you that's

1148
00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:38,200
where we're heading and we have

1149
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:39,670
something to bring to that the West has

1150
00:46:44,300 --> 00:46:41,010
something to bring to that

1151
00:46:45,770 --> 00:46:44,310
so tell me this dr. bot Davis as we wrap

1152
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:45,780
things up here you know the natural

1153
00:46:51,530 --> 00:46:48,570
follow-up questions the last one is so

1154
00:46:54,140 --> 00:46:51,540
what's book four or look like what's

1155
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:54,150
coming down the pike for you or maybe

1156
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:56,130
just what are you working on now and

1157
00:47:00,470 --> 00:46:58,050
tell folks about your website are you

1158
00:47:03,380 --> 00:47:00,480
doing new stuff there how can folks

1159
00:47:05,900 --> 00:47:03,390
connect my website I just don't give it

1160
00:47:08,780 --> 00:47:05,910
enough attention as they should it's Bob

1161
00:47:12,020 --> 00:47:08,790
Davis speaks calm that's one word calm

1162
00:47:14,630 --> 00:47:12,030
and information in the books many etc is

1163
00:47:16,670 --> 00:47:14,640
provided there sufficient enough to I

1164
00:47:19,370 --> 00:47:16,680
think in contact me with any questions

1165
00:47:20,780 --> 00:47:19,380
of course but but what's next you know I

1166
00:47:23,690 --> 00:47:20,790
wrestled with that every day

1167
00:47:25,010 --> 00:47:23,700
yeah what is reality you know and and

1168
00:47:29,630 --> 00:47:25,020
what what the heck am I gonna do

1169
00:47:32,060 --> 00:47:29,640
tomorrow in terms of writing so yeah you

1170
00:47:35,300 --> 00:47:32,070
know I wonder if I think that off this

1171
00:47:38,030 --> 00:47:35,310
altogether because it's my enjoyment my

1172
00:47:40,070 --> 00:47:38,040
stimulation is in this direction in all

1173
00:47:41,810 --> 00:47:40,080
those varying ways as you can see from

1174
00:47:43,370 --> 00:47:41,820
the few books I wrote but at the same

1175
00:47:45,530 --> 00:47:43,380
time it creates a great deal of

1176
00:47:48,109 --> 00:47:45,540
frustration doing doing this task I was

1177
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:48,119
pardon free I'm no longer associated

1178
00:47:51,770 --> 00:47:50,010
with free by the way the doctor at the

1179
00:47:54,349 --> 00:47:51,780
Mitchells foundation for like

1180
00:47:56,890 --> 00:47:54,359
terrestrial and ordinary experiences for

1181
00:47:59,090 --> 00:47:56,900
variety of reasons but but allow me to

1182
00:48:01,340 --> 00:47:59,100
have an article published with Ray

1183
00:48:02,990 --> 00:48:01,350
Fernandez dr. berty she'll dr. Russell

1184
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:03,000
says tap home the Journal of scientific

1185
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:05,040
exploration last year at blizzards

1186
00:48:09,950 --> 00:48:07,410
volume 3 number 3 you people can access

1187
00:48:11,660 --> 00:48:09,960
that online I'm very proud of that paper

1188
00:48:13,790 --> 00:48:11,670
it doesn't it doesn't mean people are

1189
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:13,800
actually interact them you know these

1190
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:16,290
grades etc feminine from a ship it is

1191
00:48:20,930 --> 00:48:18,720
profoundly important to have weather and

1192
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:20,940
taken in context for the article that it

1193
00:48:25,460 --> 00:48:22,410
is I'm sorry for getting you on for the

1194
00:48:26,780 --> 00:48:25,470
topic but that's I was just looking at

1195
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:26,790
it the other day and people need to

1196
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:27,450
understand

1197
00:48:31,940 --> 00:48:29,520
I always emphasis on this show how hard

1198
00:48:34,910 --> 00:48:31,950
it is get published in the journal

1199
00:48:36,830 --> 00:48:34,920
scientific exploration and that I've had

1200
00:48:39,020 --> 00:48:36,840
several people come on and say you know

1201
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:39,030
I published a number of places that was

1202
00:48:42,260 --> 00:48:40,650
the hardest that was the most rigorous

1203
00:48:44,090 --> 00:48:42,270
review because they're on their game

1204
00:48:45,470 --> 00:48:44,100
they know that kind of stuff that you're

1205
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:45,480
talking about and they know how to

1206
00:48:52,460 --> 00:48:50,130
scrutinize it it's not given enough

1207
00:48:54,309 --> 00:48:52,470
attention I'm not saying this from an

1208
00:48:56,739 --> 00:48:54,319
egotistical perspective

1209
00:48:58,989 --> 00:48:56,749
enough attention by ufology I mean you

1210
00:49:01,179 --> 00:48:58,999
know everybody's focuses on a tip and

1211
00:49:03,489 --> 00:49:01,189
everything else you know so along those

1212
00:49:05,650 --> 00:49:03,499
lines and so on well it's important on

1213
00:49:07,479 --> 00:49:05,660
some level it generates business for

1214
00:49:10,179 --> 00:49:07,489
you-know-who except all that sort of

1215
00:49:13,359 --> 00:49:10,189
stuff but it doesn't get at us anywhere

1216
00:49:16,509 --> 00:49:13,369
and I think this is simply the way to go

1217
00:49:18,130 --> 00:49:16,519
nice you know Bob I think you've hinted

1218
00:49:19,779 --> 00:49:18,140
out a follow-up discussion we will

1219
00:49:21,219 --> 00:49:19,789
definitely have to have one down the

1220
00:49:23,229 --> 00:49:21,229
road because there's a lot of stuff

1221
00:49:25,179 --> 00:49:23,239
going on with you that we definitely

1222
00:49:27,789 --> 00:49:25,189
want to talk more about and I love the

1223
00:49:29,499 --> 00:49:27,799
fact that you have the ability and the

1224
00:49:31,479 --> 00:49:29,509
desire to dig into some of this research

1225
00:49:33,789 --> 00:49:31,489
and people find that in the book - so

1226
00:49:35,650 --> 00:49:33,799
it's backed up and they can understand

1227
00:49:37,229 --> 00:49:35,660
it and verify it themselves which is the

1228
00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:37,239
only way to ever understand that so

1229
00:49:42,809 --> 00:49:40,910
thanks again so much for joining me and

1230
00:49:45,579 --> 00:49:42,819
we finally get to connect it was awesome

1231
00:49:47,799 --> 00:49:45,589
it's really a pleasure speaking with you

1232
00:49:49,839 --> 00:49:47,809
you have an excellent show and I've

1233
00:49:52,449 --> 00:49:49,849
always listened to it so I know if

1234
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:52,459
you're doing it we need more people like

1235
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:55,249
you to help educate more people on this

1236
00:49:59,679 --> 00:49:57,890
these important matters thank you so

1237
00:50:01,539 --> 00:49:59,689
thanks for watching this video if it

1238
00:50:04,149 --> 00:50:01,549
wasn't really a video but just an audio

1239
00:50:05,679 --> 00:50:04,159
stored as a video I apologize but

1240
00:50:07,659 --> 00:50:05,689
there's more videos out there as well

1241
00:50:09,519 --> 00:50:07,669
but please check out the Skeptical

1242
00:50:10,839 --> 00:50:09,529
website you can see it here we cover a

1243
00:50:13,659 --> 00:50:10,849
lot of different stuff you might be

1244
00:50:16,989 --> 00:50:13,669
interested in relating to controversial

1245
00:50:20,409 --> 00:50:16,999
science and spirituality a lot of shows

1246
00:50:23,439 --> 00:50:20,419
up there over 350 of them or so all free

1247
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:23,449
all available for download so do check